So far the characters have proved to be very interesting. Bernard is the typical rebel character that is always found in sci-fi books. He doesn't agree with everything that the government is doing and he is unhappy. Lenina is odd. It seems to me that by the end of the book she will agree with Bernard, but then she surprises me by being appalled by the ideas of savagery. She is very quiet and reserved. Also, she seems to disagree with the everyone belongs to everyone ideal. She seems to want to stick to one man and keep him, as if he were her boyfriend. This is unheard of though, so she does her best to suppress this wish. Mustapha Mond is also interesting. He is so set in his ways that he cannot see any other way! I also think that the director has something to hide. I have not determined what that is yet, but he seems to be too set in his ways. There is something off about him!
Also, I noticed that dating isn't a thing and that the men could "have" as many women as they wanted at one time. Same goes for the girls. Having a lot of partners isn't considered bad, that is the norm. Same goes for the soma. In our society, that would be considered horrible, using soma as much as you want, like Lenina does, but in this society no one cares.
I think that Bernard romanticizes about being with one woman and that Lenina is the same. Though she suppresses that feeling by acting the way she is supposed to act and thinking the way she is told to think. I agree that by the end of the book she will think like Bernard.
I find the drug use interesting: drugs in general stimulate the brain which is what gives the crazy feelings or whatever. What could possibly make the establishment, which discourages free and abstract thinking, want the youth to be exposed to drugs?
I think that the leaders of the society would prefer the kids to be druggies than have them questioning the society. They have engineered this drug to only have the desired effects.
So drugs don't stimulate brain, but rather, soften feelings or recreate euphoria? Ecstasy does this, right? Question: why is monogamy a source of instability? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I agree with you that Bernard is a rebel as he holds himself at arm length from everyone else through his differences. This makes him feel worse than if he tried to fit in. Lenina as you said disagrees with everyone's ideals and feel likes she should only have one person instead of multiple. However she ends up trying to fit in.
Bernard is one of the only people in society that realizes that this society isn't exciting and everything should be different. Bernard is kind of a misfit according to his class rank and this makes he feel insure, which leads to him realizing not everybody has to be the same. Lenina is a bit different. She has sort of a relationship with two different guys with two different personalities. Bernard is an insecure misfit who is a bit different physically and mentally than the rest of the class members. The other guy that she dates is a confident guy who knows a lot about his work and things in generally. I find it interesting that she falls for Bernard who is a little different than the perfect confident guy.
Would you agree with Lenina and agree that Bernard should take a (Vacation) or should he stay the way he is now and just keep on being unhappy with society and the government?
I don't believe a "vacation" is necessary. Bernard is a little stubborn about his ideas on society and he will always continue to be unhappy. If he does continue to be unhappy, he may make a change in the government or convince others to follow his beliefs.
I also found her taste in men odd and a little troubling. It is like she is having doubts about life in general and wants to figure out what she likes. Those 2 men are so very different that there has to be some issue in her mind.
Are you suggesting Lenina and Bernard are in fact rather similar? Does Bernard have enough power to change society? Should he be allowed to create instability??
For the characters what I noticed was that Bernard does not have the programmed feelings and phrases that the others do. He thinks for himself and challenges the way that society is. He does like that women are "had" and that they are treated like a piece of meat. When he took Lenina to the beach, that is where he was happiest because no one was telling him who to be and he did not have to do what the society asked of him. Lenina, on the other hand, did not mind or did not realize that she was a piece of meat. She liked Henry Foster and had only had him for a four months time. Her friend was worried about her, but Lenina saw nothing wrong with it. Lenina does not entirely follow the rules of the society and is beginning to see parts wrong with the society, such as the having many different people. She still says all of the things programmed and does not break the rules like Bernard does. I feel that as the story progresses Lenina will start to become more like Bernard and see what he was trying to tell her on the beach.
I agree with you that Lenina's character might develop into more of a Bernard character - where she recognizes the faults in society and begins to challenge them.
Bernard seems to be more secluded than the rest and isn't afraid to be different. He doesn't always believe what he's supposed to, so some of the other people think he's weird and blame it on his creating being messed up. Bernard liked to be alone, like in the darkness, while Lenina felt the opposite. Bernard also felt bad after going to bed with Lenina, but she felt that something that could be done that day should not be put off until tomorrow. He feels as though he has to go to greater troubles than others in order to get his points or orders across. People don't seem to think of him as the value of the others on his level, they think of him as lower. Lenina comes across as being thoughtful to herself, in the way that she always seems to be thinking, but only with the thoughts she was taught to have. She specifically liked Henry, which her friends found kind of odd since she spent a prolonged time with him, and that isn't allowed.
I found it odd that Bernard felt bad after sleeping with Lenina. I mean, I understand that he is different, but he should still enjoy sex... That part confused me.
Bernard and Lenina are the main characters mentioned throughout these paragraphs. It mentions frequently how Bernard has different thoughts than everyone else as he doesn't really like being part of the society and social body and actually likes to be alone. Lenina mentions his "weird" personality and it seems like there is something about him that she just cant figure out. When Bernard goes to talk to the Director, the director reveals his trip with a girl that he lost and seems to lose himself in his story describing his feelings that day. He realizes he has said too much and revealed too much and actually gets mad at himself for doing so. The director warns Bernard for his thoughts and threatens to send him to Iceland if he doesn't fix it. Instead of using this warning to fix his 'mistake' Bernard takes advantage of it and actually is rebellious. He can not believe when he hears that he really is being sent to Iceland. Bernard always has that weird side to him as he prefers to be alone with just Lenina rather than in a large crowd and doesn't really like to have soma because he'd rather just be himself.
I feel as if Bernard is very full of himself, and thinks he is better then everyone else. In the book not only does he go on a date with Lenina but he also is not very easy to train. He doesn't like being told what to do.I do also think that Bernard is very horny because he has sex with Lenina on the first date, and he says he wouldn't normally do that, but this time he did. He does not really agree with the flow of society and he is one of the only ones that realizes the life he lives is boring, and that they aren't "normal." As for Henry I think he is kind of clueless in a way. He isn't necessarily sure what he wants with Lenina, and he never really has any emotion about Bernard and Lenina going on dates together. Lenina is very human like and open minded. Instead of telling Bernard that she will go on a date with him privately she yells it in front of everyone, and this angers Bernard because he likes to be alone and private. She also doesn't care that she is seeing two guys at once. She uses Soma for everything and encourages whoever she is with to take them whenever something goes even a little bit wrong. She will also go wherever the boys want her to go. She just kind of goes with the flow of things
I disagree in thinking that Bernard is full of himself. He comments regularly about how he is jealous of the other boys and their height or abilities to easily attract women. I think he might find worth in himself with all the thinking he does about the caste system and how he is an outlier. In a world where everyone is supposed to be happy, he feels left out and alone.
While in the girls dressing room, Lenina talked to Fanny about how she was going out with Henry Foster again and Fanny was trying to get her to kind of go out with other men and not just Henry because she felt that they were together for a very long time (It was only 4 months). I feel like it is strange how the people BNW can think 4 months is a long time to be with one man when we think of 4 months as not that long of a time and that staying with one person for a long time is a good thing. I feel like after having the talk with Fanny, Lenina kind of started over thinking what she was doing and started second guessing things.
I feel that the people in the book feel that 4 months is a very long time because they really have nothing to work towards. People today have to take their relationship slow because some people may be in fear that if they have sex then they will have a baby. In Brave New World no civilian has to worry about that because they have an "incubator" type facility that facilitates new people. That is why when Bernard and Lenina go on their first date they have sex.
If you think about it in their perspective, 4 months is a long time. I agree with Carley because 4 months is a long time when you already know there isn't any way to have a future with one guy. You don't have a family including your own children and one significant other. This is why Lenina dates around and is comfortable talking about dates with guys around other people.
I definitely think that there is a lot of second guessing among the group of characters that we have been introduced to, but mostly the more rebellious. The characters that want to go against what society is normally like might not even have an attraction to someone else, so therefore they make quick and rash decisions. However, I think that just because they have a safe haven with the "incubator", doesn't mean that they aren't thinking about all of the after effects. It's been determined that Lenina is not really certain on her thoughts, and she might come off as odd for that reason.
Bernard does not know what he wants and he is depressed or angry and has mood swings. In chapter 6 him and Lenina are talking about what they are going to do and then when him and Lenina don't agree he blows up saying "I'd rather be myself" Myself and Nasty, not someone else and then when Lenina tries to calm him down he just keeps on shouting. Lenina just wants to try and help Bernard but he just keeps pushing her away. It is like he is going into depression and is pushing out all the people that care about him. Lenina just wants to be there for him because even though he seems to be raising his voice at her she is telling him not to lose his temper and such.
I disagree. Bernard has a good reason for pushing Lenina away, because she's trying to help him by drugging him up with soma. I also don't think Lenina is really "there for" Bernard. I believe she's just curious about him and only tries to "help" him because he's different from the other men she's dealt with, and that upsets her.
It seems right now Lenina and Bernard are being focused on mainly. Lenina doesn't seem to special, but Bernard takes an interest to her. Possibly because she's pretty, or possibly because they have some opinions that are alike, even though some are different. In a way, Lelina makes Bernard more popular. There's also Helmholtz Watson, who seems a little to smart for his rank. In a way he's too intelligent and attractive for his own good.Then there's the Director, who seems to be in charge of the task of raising the infants and the classes, but right now he doesn't seem like such a major character at this time, though he's important in his position .
I disagree with your opinion of Lenina. I think that she is special, mainly because she is so odd and just has an overall different way of doing things. Also, maybe you can connect your ideas. You said that Lenina makes Bernard more popular but you don't really know why Bernard took an interest in her. Maybe that's the reason! Maybe he could be using her in a way. I agree with your statement on the Director. To me, he hasn't really shown much significance to the story.
I find the contrast between Lenina, Bernard, Fanny, and Henry's attitudes about the world very interesting. Fanny is incredulous that Lenina stayed with one man for four months, a period of time we'd consider as barely dating. I also noticed her commenting wanting a belt like Lenina's-it was no accident that one on the next few paragraphs was switched to the mantra being taught to the Betas. "The more stitches, the less riches." Henry seems to also be very much in touch with the world he lives in, as he talks about "having" Lenina like a drug. Actually, I think that's a good analogy for sex in this world. It's a drug, something to distract them from what's going on. I think they're addicted, considering the comment that a boy made about one time he faced an insurmountable obstacle. "I had to wait nearly four weeks before a girl I wanted would let me have her." This is like someone in our society expecting their crush to have sex with them within a month of meeting them. Alright, back on track. Lenina is strongly conditioned, like the others, but did stick with Henry for a time that the people of this world seem to consider appallingly long, and romanced Bernard, someone that society has deemed lesser. Bernard is a prime example of this society being imperfect. Even if you accept the morals and ethics of this society, you can see they cannot be perfect as their system did not make Bernard accept their way, and because it can't "fix" him.
I fell as if Fanny, Lenina, and Henry are happy in the world they live in while Bernard is rebellious and fells as if the world is satisfied with the world in which he lives. I fell as if the way Henry has described Lenina, he might be considered a womenizer in our world though in their world they find it to be okay. I fell as if Lenina is not entirely independent either and depends a lot on other people such as when Fanny had to remind her about her belt. That is how I fell about the characters so far
I agree with you because I think that Fanny, Henry, and Lenina are very similar to each other while Bernard stands out from the three other characters and is more of a rebel.
There are many differences between the main characters. First of all, there's Lenina, she seems to the perfect representation of her caste. She does all that is expected, and is happy about it. She often repeats all these slogans and tries to promote the "social norm". Bernard, however is not at all like this. He has this strong desire to feel like himself and not like a "cell in the social body". He never took well to the conditioning, and because of this people say he had alcohol put his surrogate because he doesn't act, or look like everyone else in is caste. Lenina finds the fact that he wants to experience pain and all of bad emotions unsettling, and often when she tells him to take the drug Soma, he refuses. You can already tell that Bernard is going to get worse as the story goes on, maybe he'll act out against society or encourage someone else....Another character is Helmholtz, he seems to suffer the same problem as Bernard. He has a problem where according to society he's got it all, but all the women and sports are just second bests to him, he wants more, he's just not quite sure what it is.
I agree with your idea that Bernard will get worse as the story goes on. I think some controversy will again arise between Bernard and the entire system. Him and Helmholtz seem to be digging a little too deep into everything and might figure out something they shouldn't have.
I am going to agree with what you and Brian have stated, I fell as if Bernard and Helmhotz will eventually get in trouble but I think that Lenina will also be dragged into it. I am not sure about Fanny or Henry though but I think they will end up being on the opposite side even though they are friends with Lenina.
I disagree with what you said about Lenina. She portrays being happy about it, but she doesn't do all that is expected. She wants to be with 1 guy for a long time. And she takes Soma so much because she is unhappy. Also, the repeats the slogans a lot, but when she does she seems sad about it. Like, she will say it very glumly.
I agree with your description of Lenina who is, on the outside, the "poster child" for the people that the hatcheries are trying to make. For example, she is constantly repeating phrases like "I'm glad I'm not a gamma." However, I also think deep down she is different because she was happy with a more long term relationship which is considered strange to others. I think she has an idea of what she wants but doesn't have the will to gi against society, unlike Bernard who is more of a free spirit. Similar to what you said about Bernard, I also believe that his feelings against society will continue to get worse as the story progresses and he will try to convince others. I don't think Bernard will be successful in starting anything because the majority of people are happy and satisfied with life, therefore they wouldn't have a reason for wanting change.
Yeah, I see what you and Madeline mean, I feel like she wants to be that perfect "poster child" and she tries, however, deep down she know's that she doesn't or can't. These emotions are conflicting which is probably why she takes so much Soma
In chapters 3-6, Bernard seems to be a rebel to me. He is not afraid to be himself and go against the grain. He often wants what he cannot have, and eventually he becomes interested in Lenina. Lenina has been with Henry for a bit of time now and Bernard decides to ask Lenina on a date. Lenina accepts and their relationship progresses. Bernard's first entrance was ironic, and he becomes better known later when he, the strange looking Bernard, asks Lenina out. Lenina also persuades Bernard to take soma more than once, which is something Bernard is not particularly fond of because he does not feel like he normally does when he takes it. Bernard, overall, interests me, and I enjoy seeing him as a central figure in this novel. Another character is the Director. The Director knows the hatchery inside and out, and he knows everything about the processes. It seems as though he may know more about the entire process and about life in general than he lets on. The Director may have some insight for Bernard about love and such.
I agree that Bernard trys to be much more than what he was meant for. I think that he might become a problem for the "system" because he is so differen t and in this type of sociatie different is bad I predict that he might be taken away.
I agree with you on the fact that Bernard is going to be rebelious. I find it weird though how 4 months in their time are very long compared to 4 months in our time. I also fell as if Bernard like you stated was not really interested in the beginning but by the end of chapter 6, he has become semi- interested in Lenina. I fell that the Director will not be able to help Bernard but does know about Bernard's issue (the rumor). I also fell as if the Controller (Mustapha Mond) has some connection with Bernard also.
To me Mustapha Mond seems like he does not fully agree with what is going on, but he acts like he is loyal and doesn't have a doubt.. Also Lenina seems to think her life is boring and that is why she went out with Bernard Marx. He has a bad reputation and seems to be sort of wild. unlike Henry Foster who is very Alpha like and had a high self- confidence for himself. Bernard Marx is a little confused and is trying to be a better person for Lenina but doesn't know how to. The Director seems to be a very scared man and worrying about what might go wrong, which is why I believe ehe is exiling Bernard, because he saw he rebel in him.
I think Bernard's unsavory opinions on the societal systems in BNW could very well catch on and spread to other youths across the classes. This seems particularly likely in the case of Lenina as she's taking interest in Bernard for the very reasons that he stands out as different and controversial, all this said, if Bernards indifference towards society in BNW takes off in the form of a revolution, which characters could you see join up in his cause, and which wouldn't agree?
Lenina and Bernard are the characters that I think play the biggest role in 3-6. Lenina starts out as sort of an innocent like character, loving only one man and secretly not following the rules of society. Her friend, Fanny, talks her into "having" more than one guy so she could be a better person and stay out of trouble. The book speeds forward and we again see Lenina, but in a different light. She has "had" many men and now is swallowed into society, and become a different person. She always wants to be in the public showing herself off, with new clothes, talking about men in front of other men, going out to clubs and hotels, and indulging is soma. She is very different than when we first met her, and very involved in society's perfect picture. Bernard's character starts in the middle of Lenina's story. Bernard is one of the men she is "having" at the time, but he really is not having much fun being in society, or in his job, or in his life really. He has a high position job and brings Lenina out constantly, and tries to get her to see his views; against soma, against going to clubs or out on the town, and against spending their alone time doing it in a hotel room.
Bernard seems to be the rebellious one in the book. He doesn't like to take soma like the others do. He would rather sit and be angry about something than go on a little holiday. He's somewhat anti-social too. He would rather stay home or fly in the middle of the ocean. Lenina is somewhat rebellious too. She wants love, she's tired of being promiscuous. Then she changes a bit. She talks about all of the men she's been with. But deep down inside she still wants love. Sorry for the late posting
So far the characters have proved to be very interesting. Bernard is the typical rebel character that is always found in sci-fi books. He doesn't agree with everything that the government is doing and he is unhappy. Lenina is odd. It seems to me that by the end of the book she will agree with Bernard, but then she surprises me by being appalled by the ideas of savagery. She is very quiet and reserved. Also, she seems to disagree with the everyone belongs to everyone ideal. She seems to want to stick to one man and keep him, as if he were her boyfriend. This is unheard of though, so she does her best to suppress this wish. Mustapha Mond is also interesting. He is so set in his ways that he cannot see any other way! I also think that the director has something to hide. I have not determined what that is yet, but he seems to be too set in his ways. There is something off about him!
ReplyDeleteAlso, I noticed that dating isn't a thing and that the men could "have" as many women as they wanted at one time. Same goes for the girls. Having a lot of partners isn't considered bad, that is the norm. Same goes for the soma. In our society, that would be considered horrible, using soma as much as you want, like Lenina does, but in this society no one cares.
DeleteI think that Bernard romanticizes about being with one woman and that Lenina is the same. Though she suppresses that feeling by acting the way she is supposed to act and thinking the way she is told to think. I agree that by the end of the book she will think like Bernard.
DeleteI find the drug use interesting: drugs in general stimulate the brain which is what gives the crazy feelings or whatever. What could possibly make the establishment, which discourages free and abstract thinking, want the youth to be exposed to drugs?
DeleteI think that the leaders of the society would prefer the kids to be druggies than have them questioning the society. They have engineered this drug to only have the desired effects.
DeleteSo drugs don't stimulate brain, but rather, soften feelings or recreate euphoria? Ecstasy does this, right?
DeleteQuestion: why is monogamy a source of instability? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I agree with you that Bernard is a rebel as he holds himself at arm length from everyone else through his differences. This makes him feel worse than if he tried to fit in. Lenina as you said disagrees with everyone's ideals and feel likes she should only have one person instead of multiple. However she ends up trying to fit in.
DeleteBernard is one of the only people in society that realizes that this society isn't exciting and everything should be different. Bernard is kind of a misfit according to his class rank and this makes he feel insure, which leads to him realizing not everybody has to be the same. Lenina is a bit different. She has sort of a relationship with two different guys with two different personalities. Bernard is an insecure misfit who is a bit different physically and mentally than the rest of the class members. The other guy that she dates is a confident guy who knows a lot about his work and things in generally. I find it interesting that she falls for Bernard who is a little different than the perfect confident guy.
ReplyDeleteWould you agree with Lenina and agree that Bernard should take a (Vacation) or should he stay the way he is now and just keep on being unhappy with society and the government?
DeleteI don't believe a "vacation" is necessary. Bernard is a little stubborn about his ideas on society and he will always continue to be unhappy. If he does continue to be unhappy, he may make a change in the government or convince others to follow his beliefs.
DeleteI also found her taste in men odd and a little troubling. It is like she is having doubts about life in general and wants to figure out what she likes. Those 2 men are so very different that there has to be some issue in her mind.
DeleteAre you suggesting Lenina and Bernard are in fact rather similar? Does Bernard have enough power to change society? Should he be allowed to create instability??
DeleteFor the characters what I noticed was that Bernard does not have the programmed feelings and phrases that the others do. He thinks for himself and challenges the way that society is. He does like that women are "had" and that they are treated like a piece of meat. When he took Lenina to the beach, that is where he was happiest because no one was telling him who to be and he did not have to do what the society asked of him. Lenina, on the other hand, did not mind or did not realize that she was a piece of meat. She liked Henry Foster and had only had him for a four months time. Her friend was worried about her, but Lenina saw nothing wrong with it. Lenina does not entirely follow the rules of the society and is beginning to see parts wrong with the society, such as the having many different people. She still says all of the things programmed and does not break the rules like Bernard does. I feel that as the story progresses Lenina will start to become more like Bernard and see what he was trying to tell her on the beach.
ReplyDeleteYou mean he deos NOT like that women are "had" ;)
DeleteI agree with you that Lenina's character might develop into more of a Bernard character - where she recognizes the faults in society and begins to challenge them.
DeleteI think that Bernard will influence more people than just Lenina's I belive that he will start the begining of the end of this utopia.
DeleteBen, what makes you think he will have the power? Others find him strange, not attractive. What great reformers have been like Bernard?
DeleteBernard seems to be more secluded than the rest and isn't afraid to be different. He doesn't always believe what he's supposed to, so some of the other people think he's weird and blame it on his creating being messed up. Bernard liked to be alone, like in the darkness, while Lenina felt the opposite. Bernard also felt bad after going to bed with Lenina, but she felt that something that could be done that day should not be put off until tomorrow. He feels as though he has to go to greater troubles than others in order to get his points or orders across. People don't seem to think of him as the value of the others on his level, they think of him as lower. Lenina comes across as being thoughtful to herself, in the way that she always seems to be thinking, but only with the thoughts she was taught to have. She specifically liked Henry, which her friends found kind of odd since she spent a prolonged time with him, and that isn't allowed.
ReplyDeleteI found it odd that Bernard felt bad after sleeping with Lenina. I mean, I understand that he is different, but he should still enjoy sex... That part confused me.
DeleteYeah, I agree, I didn't get why he did it in the first place if he didn't actually want to, and he was the one to make the first move too.
DeleteWhat does Bernard NEED to believe about his time with Lenina? What does he NEED to feel? (Remember Maslow)
DeleteBernard and Lenina are the main characters mentioned throughout these paragraphs. It mentions frequently how Bernard has different thoughts than everyone else as he doesn't really like being part of the society and social body and actually likes to be alone. Lenina mentions his "weird" personality and it seems like there is something about him that she just cant figure out. When Bernard goes to talk to the Director, the director reveals his trip with a girl that he lost and seems to lose himself in his story describing his feelings that day. He realizes he has said too much and revealed too much and actually gets mad at himself for doing so. The director warns Bernard for his thoughts and threatens to send him to Iceland if he doesn't fix it. Instead of using this warning to fix his 'mistake' Bernard takes advantage of it and actually is rebellious. He can not believe when he hears that he really is being sent to Iceland. Bernard always has that weird side to him as he prefers to be alone with just Lenina rather than in a large crowd and doesn't really like to have soma because he'd rather just be himself.
ReplyDeleteOk, but this is all pretty much plot regurgitation. What do YOU think about them? What do you see going on?
DeleteI feel as if Bernard is very full of himself, and thinks he is better then everyone else. In the book not only does he go on a date with Lenina but he also is not very easy to train. He doesn't like being told what to do.I do also think that Bernard is very horny because he has sex with Lenina on the first date, and he says he wouldn't normally do that, but this time he did. He does not really agree with the flow of society and he is one of the only ones that realizes the life he lives is boring, and that they aren't "normal." As for Henry I think he is kind of clueless in a way. He isn't necessarily sure what he wants with Lenina, and he never really has any emotion about Bernard and Lenina going on dates together. Lenina is very human like and open minded. Instead of telling Bernard that she will go on a date with him privately she yells it in front of everyone, and this angers Bernard because he likes to be alone and private. She also doesn't care that she is seeing two guys at once. She uses Soma for everything and encourages whoever she is with to take them whenever something goes even a little bit wrong. She will also go wherever the boys want her to go. She just kind of goes with the flow of things
ReplyDeleteI disagree in thinking that Bernard is full of himself. He comments regularly about how he is jealous of the other boys and their height or abilities to easily attract women. I think he might find worth in himself with all the thinking he does about the caste system and how he is an outlier. In a world where everyone is supposed to be happy, he feels left out and alone.
DeleteWhile in the girls dressing room, Lenina talked to Fanny about how she was going out with Henry Foster again and Fanny was trying to get her to kind of go out with other men and not just Henry because she felt that they were together for a very long time (It was only 4 months). I feel like it is strange how the people BNW can think 4 months is a long time to be with one man when we think of 4 months as not that long of a time and that staying with one person for a long time is a good thing. I feel like after having the talk with Fanny, Lenina kind of started over thinking what she was doing and started second guessing things.
ReplyDeleteEveryone belongs to everyone else...
DeleteI feel that the people in the book feel that 4 months is a very long time because they really have nothing to work towards. People today have to take their relationship slow because some people may be in fear that if they have sex then they will have a baby. In Brave New World no civilian has to worry about that because they have an "incubator" type facility that facilitates new people. That is why when Bernard and Lenina go on their first date they have sex.
DeleteIf you think about it in their perspective, 4 months is a long time. I agree with Carley because 4 months is a long time when you already know there isn't any way to have a future with one guy. You don't have a family including your own children and one significant other. This is why Lenina dates around and is comfortable talking about dates with guys around other people.
DeleteI definitely think that there is a lot of second guessing among the group of characters that we have been introduced to, but mostly the more rebellious. The characters that want to go against what society is normally like might not even have an attraction to someone else, so therefore they make quick and rash decisions. However, I think that just because they have a safe haven with the "incubator", doesn't mean that they aren't thinking about all of the after effects. It's been determined that Lenina is not really certain on her thoughts, and she might come off as odd for that reason.
DeleteBernard does not know what he wants and he is depressed or angry and has mood swings. In chapter 6 him and Lenina are talking about what they are going to do and then when him and Lenina don't agree he blows up saying "I'd rather be myself" Myself and Nasty, not someone else and then when Lenina tries to calm him down he just keeps on shouting. Lenina just wants to try and help Bernard but he just keeps pushing her away. It is like he is going into depression and is pushing out all the people that care about him. Lenina just wants to be there for him because even though he seems to be raising his voice at her she is telling him not to lose his temper and such.
ReplyDeleteWhy is he so upset? What is the crux of his problem?
DeleteI disagree. Bernard has a good reason for pushing Lenina away, because she's trying to help him by drugging him up with soma. I also don't think Lenina is really "there for" Bernard. I believe she's just curious about him and only tries to "help" him because he's different from the other men she's dealt with, and that upsets her.
DeleteIt seems right now Lenina and Bernard are being focused on mainly. Lenina doesn't seem to special, but Bernard takes an interest to her. Possibly because she's pretty, or possibly because they have some opinions that are alike, even though some are different. In a way, Lelina makes Bernard more popular. There's also Helmholtz Watson, who seems a little to smart for his rank. In a way he's too intelligent and attractive for his own good.Then there's the Director, who seems to be in charge of the task of raising the infants and the classes, but right now he doesn't seem like such a major character at this time, though he's important in his position
ReplyDelete.
What would make Lenina "special"? What makes Bernard so...if he is...?
DeleteI disagree with your opinion of Lenina. I think that she is special, mainly because she is so odd and just has an overall different way of doing things. Also, maybe you can connect your ideas. You said that Lenina makes Bernard more popular but you don't really know why Bernard took an interest in her. Maybe that's the reason! Maybe he could be using her in a way. I agree with your statement on the Director. To me, he hasn't really shown much significance to the story.
DeleteI find the contrast between Lenina, Bernard, Fanny, and Henry's attitudes about the world very interesting. Fanny is incredulous that Lenina stayed with one man for four months, a period of time we'd consider as barely dating. I also noticed her commenting wanting a belt like Lenina's-it was no accident that one on the next few paragraphs was switched to the mantra being taught to the Betas. "The more stitches, the less riches." Henry seems to also be very much in touch with the world he lives in, as he talks about "having" Lenina like a drug. Actually, I think that's a good analogy for sex in this world. It's a drug, something to distract them from what's going on. I think they're addicted, considering the comment that a boy made about one time he faced an insurmountable obstacle. "I had to wait nearly four weeks before a girl I wanted would let me have her." This is like someone in our society expecting their crush to have sex with them within a month of meeting them. Alright, back on track. Lenina is strongly conditioned, like the others, but did stick with Henry for a time that the people of this world seem to consider appallingly long, and romanced Bernard, someone that society has deemed lesser. Bernard is a prime example of this society being imperfect. Even if you accept the morals and ethics of this society, you can see they cannot be perfect as their system did not make Bernard accept their way, and because it can't "fix" him.
ReplyDeleteI fell as if Fanny, Lenina, and Henry are happy in the world they live in while Bernard is rebellious and fells as if the world is satisfied with the world in which he lives. I fell as if the way Henry has described Lenina, he might be considered a womenizer in our world though in their world they find it to be okay. I fell as if Lenina is not entirely independent either and depends a lot on other people such as when Fanny had to remind her about her belt. That is how I fell about the characters so far
DeleteI agree with you because I think that Fanny, Henry, and Lenina are very similar to each other while Bernard stands out from the three other characters and is more of a rebel.
DeleteThere are many differences between the main characters. First of all, there's Lenina, she seems to the perfect representation of her caste. She does all that is expected, and is happy about it. She often repeats all these slogans and tries to promote the "social norm". Bernard, however is not at all like this. He has this strong desire to feel like himself and not like a "cell in the social body". He never took well to the conditioning, and because of this people say he had alcohol put his surrogate because he doesn't act, or look like everyone else in is caste. Lenina finds the fact that he wants to experience pain and all of bad emotions unsettling, and often when she tells him to take the drug Soma, he refuses. You can already tell that Bernard is going to get worse as the story goes on, maybe he'll act out against society or encourage someone else....Another character is Helmholtz, he seems to suffer the same problem as Bernard. He has a problem where according to society he's got it all, but all the women and sports are just second bests to him, he wants more, he's just not quite sure what it is.
ReplyDelete-----THIS IS CHARLOTTE....
IS Lenina really the perfect Beta?
DeleteI agree with your idea that Bernard will get worse as the story goes on. I think some controversy will again arise between Bernard and the entire system. Him and Helmholtz seem to be digging a little too deep into everything and might figure out something they shouldn't have.
DeleteI am going to agree with what you and Brian have stated, I fell as if Bernard and Helmhotz will eventually get in trouble but I think that Lenina will also be dragged into it. I am not sure about Fanny or Henry though but I think they will end up being on the opposite side even though they are friends with Lenina.
DeleteI disagree with what you said about Lenina. She portrays being happy about it, but she doesn't do all that is expected. She wants to be with 1 guy for a long time. And she takes Soma so much because she is unhappy. Also, the repeats the slogans a lot, but when she does she seems sad about it. Like, she will say it very glumly.
DeleteI agree with your description of Lenina who is, on the outside, the "poster child" for the people that the hatcheries are trying to make. For example, she is constantly repeating phrases like "I'm glad I'm not a gamma." However, I also think deep down she is different because she was happy with a more long term relationship which is considered strange to others. I think she has an idea of what she wants but doesn't have the will to gi against society, unlike Bernard who is more of a free spirit. Similar to what you said about Bernard, I also believe that his feelings against society will continue to get worse as the story progresses and he will try to convince others. I don't think Bernard will be successful in starting anything because the majority of people are happy and satisfied with life, therefore they wouldn't have a reason for wanting change.
DeleteYeah, I see what you and Madeline mean, I feel like she wants to be that perfect "poster child" and she tries, however, deep down she know's that she doesn't or can't. These emotions are conflicting which is probably why she takes so much Soma
DeleteIn chapters 3-6, Bernard seems to be a rebel to me. He is not afraid to be himself and go against the grain. He often wants what he cannot have, and eventually he becomes interested in Lenina. Lenina has been with Henry for a bit of time now and Bernard decides to ask Lenina on a date. Lenina accepts and their relationship progresses. Bernard's first entrance was ironic, and he becomes better known later when he, the strange looking Bernard, asks Lenina out. Lenina also persuades Bernard to take soma more than once, which is something Bernard is not particularly fond of because he does not feel like he normally does when he takes it. Bernard, overall, interests me, and I enjoy seeing him as a central figure in this novel. Another character is the Director. The Director knows the hatchery inside and out, and he knows everything about the processes. It seems as though he may know more about the entire process and about life in general than he lets on. The Director may have some insight for Bernard about love and such.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Bernard trys to be much more than what he was meant for. I think that he might become a problem for the "system" because he is so differen t and in this type of sociatie different is bad I predict that he might be taken away.
DeleteI agree with you on the fact that Bernard is going to be rebelious. I find it weird though how 4 months in their time are very long compared to 4 months in our time. I also fell as if Bernard like you stated was not really interested in the beginning but by the end of chapter 6, he has become semi- interested in Lenina. I fell that the Director will not be able to help Bernard but does know about Bernard's issue (the rumor). I also fell as if the Controller (Mustapha Mond) has some connection with Bernard also.
DeleteI agree with your idea because Bernard is more of a rebel and wants to be himself. He is always going against the rules and doing whatever he wants.
DeleteTo me Mustapha Mond seems like he does not fully agree with what is going on, but he acts like he is loyal and doesn't have a doubt.. Also Lenina seems to think her life is boring and that is why she went out with Bernard Marx. He has a bad reputation and seems to be sort of wild. unlike Henry Foster who is very Alpha like and had a high self- confidence for himself. Bernard Marx is a little confused and is trying to be a better person for Lenina but doesn't know how to. The Director seems to be a very scared man and worrying about what might go wrong, which is why I believe ehe is exiling Bernard, because he saw he rebel in him.
ReplyDeleteGiven Mustapha's position, what would you see as his dilemma?
DeleteI think Bernard's unsavory opinions on the societal systems in BNW could very well catch on and spread to other youths across the classes. This seems particularly likely in the case of Lenina as she's taking interest in Bernard for the very reasons that he stands out as different and controversial, all this said, if Bernards indifference towards society in BNW takes off in the form of a revolution, which characters could you see join up in his cause, and which wouldn't agree?
DeleteDid Lenina "catch" this from Bernard, though? Does Bernard interest others? Is HE indifferent? What drives him?
DeleteLenina and Bernard are the characters that I think play the biggest role in 3-6. Lenina starts out as sort of an innocent like character, loving only one man and secretly not following the rules of society. Her friend, Fanny, talks her into "having" more than one guy so she could be a better person and stay out of trouble. The book speeds forward and we again see Lenina, but in a different light. She has "had" many men and now is swallowed into society, and become a different person. She always wants to be in the public showing herself off, with new clothes, talking about men in front of other men, going out to clubs and hotels, and indulging is soma. She is very different than when we first met her, and very involved in society's perfect picture.
ReplyDeleteBernard's character starts in the middle of Lenina's story. Bernard is one of the men she is "having" at the time, but he really is not having much fun being in society, or in his job, or in his life really. He has a high position job and brings Lenina out constantly, and tries to get her to see his views; against soma, against going to clubs or out on the town, and against spending their alone time doing it in a hotel room.
Bernard seems to be the rebellious one in the book. He doesn't like to take soma like the others do. He would rather sit and be angry about something than go on a little holiday. He's somewhat anti-social too. He would rather stay home or fly in the middle of the ocean.
ReplyDeleteLenina is somewhat rebellious too. She wants love, she's tired of being promiscuous. Then she changes a bit. She talks about all of the men she's been with. But deep down inside she still wants love.
Sorry for the late posting